'Oh how the mighty have fallen!'

Sunday June 13 2004

Our columnist Stephen Jones gets it in the neck!

The knives were out following the defeats of England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland at the weekend. Our readers from below the equator saw the northern whitewash as an indication of superiority of the south - and took great pleasure in telling us all about it! Here are just a few of your views ... 

'IT'S ALL OVER FOR NORTH'

"Heineken Cup power v Super 12 hype? Didn't I just watch the 'powder puff' Kiwis demolish the power Poms?

"How exactly does [columnist] Stephen Jones like his humble pie served?"
- Jamie McGregor

"So the Northern Hemisphere teams have finally overcome Australia, New Zealand and South Africa to claim the top rankings in world rugby, have they?
 
"I don't think so. It seems clear that England's World Cup victory (to be fair, a most impressive campaign by a team with limited talent but a great kicker) will turn out to be a temporary aberration."
- Geoff Stevenson, Victoria, Canada

"Well after that display of rugby I think the likes of Mr. Stephen Jones and others owe us in the Southern Hemisphere unions an apology.

"All we heard this year and last from Mr. Jones (apparently a highly respected journo up there) was how superior England's tight five were, how great the Heineken Cup and all other various competitions up there were compared to the Super 12 and so on and so forth ad nauseam.

"He should now be man enough to admit he seriously underestimated the strength of Southern Hemisphere rugby, based on a few 'close' games last year.

"I'm sick of hearing about the 'powder-puff' All Blacks, which is why I was so glad to see the bubble burst last night."
- J Mitchell, Cook Islands

"Ahhh ... the powder puff forwards, the pretty exciting but soft super 12. Clearly not a good grounding to play the tough uncompromising England team.

"Anyone seen Steven Jones today? England were outclassed and outplayed - pretty much like over the last two seasons but today lady luck ran out. Bereft of ideas, unable to make first-up tackles and their forwards were screwed in the tight, and beaten to every loose ball. 36-3 flattered England. They show no depth, and absolutely no class in any back position. After two 2 point losses to the Poms in the last two NZ-England tests normal service is now resumed."
- Jerry, Kiwi in UK

"I knew we would win, but it was how we won that surprised me. England forwards looked old tired and have been in the white jersey too many times. I am looking forward to the next encounter at Eden Park, where there will be an even contest between two teams who like to beat up on each other, England will not let us do it a second time so expect a huge game.

"Many congratulations to the AB's and commiserations to the Whites. Just one tip for next week to England, keep the cheap shots out and concentrate on the game and make it competitive."
- Robert Biddle, Rotorua, NZ

"Oh how the mighty fall. New Zealand looked really unsettled and out of touch in the opening half against England, yet they were such a class above them - it was not funny.

"South Africa, finally seemed to come right, and Argentina were awesome (considering they play such little international rugby), and Australia, again, far superior.

The best one of all though was England. They lose more than half there side ... yet walk around like they are unbeatable - what a shock and horror to see them play pathetic rugby again."
- Warren Sheehan, South African in London

"A one dimensional England were outdone in a departments by the All Blacks - especially in the improvisation of the backs, and in the planning of the forwards.

"Professional rugby players should not miss touch and give dangerous runners free ball in open space - big changes in personnel and game plan or another hammering awaits next week."
 - Daz, Whitby, Yorkshire

"How many bad games does Steve Thompson need before Woodward drops him?"
- John Gough, UK

"So the Southern Hemisphere managed a clean sweep over the Northern  Hemisphere again. It was all in their backyard so perhaps it isn't time to write off the Northern Hemisphere game altogether.

"Most of those results aren't too shocking, even if I would have liked to see Wales and Ireland win. But what will England do next? This isn't time to 'bounce back' there is just too far to go. Will we see the broom come out?

"Or maybe it is higher up we need to look. In other sports, and in other nations, changing managers seems popular.

"Sir Clive has managed to shoot himself - and his side - in the foot twice on the trot. A couple more shots like that in short order and maybe he'll curl up and die."
- Lewis Pike, a Welsh All Blacks fan, York

"Isn't it time Stephen Jones fell on his sword and shut up?

"I don't really even want to write this email - I feel it may only serve to encourage the man further.

"Isn't it time though, he went away and thought about what he was going to say. His comments in the media for last few years have been in an embarrassment to England."
- Tom Eames, London

"Well done to the All Blacks. What is lamentable is how one-sided that game was.

"Only one side turned up for that game, and a team as brimming with talent deserves better opposition than the idea-less, ill-disciplined, slow England that they faced.

"I know England can attack better than that - they've shown they can play a wide, fast game, which is why last night was such a disappointment that only 1 team bothered to do that."
- James Young

"You can blame tiredness or RWC hangover all you want (and to be fair the England camp haven't made excuses) and you can relearn how to make first-up tackles and get more physical in the scrum and quicker to the breakdown BUT what you cannot change, it seems, is Steve Thompson's inability to throw to his own jumpers in the lineout and Dallaglio's shortcomings as a captain. 

"England don't need to make wholesale changes ... but they need to trim some of the more experienced/older players, most notably Thomson, Cohen, Dawson and temporarily Tindall who all look tired or not hungry. 

"And they need to find a new captain pretty quickly if we want to challenge in RWC 2007."
- Mike Hicks, England fan

"What happened to England? I mean, there was just nothing from them at all!

"Is this an English rugby side which has just played too much rugby for too long? Or has the 'honeymoon' ended? Or has Clive Woodward once again offered a weak England side for a tour down under?

"Whatever the reason, that was either a truly pathetic English team on the park Saturday night, or a very, very good NZ side. I just hope that the next test is a little more competitive - then again another 30 point thrashing by the AB's would not displease me!
- Jon, NZ

"New Zealand is back now that John Mitchell is gone. For the last two years we have not seen the best players selected or intelligent coaching.  The darkness has finally been lifted.  Long live Graham Henry.
- Murray Chisholm, Wellington, NZ

"Stephen Jones is a sad and pathetic man - how he wins awards for journalism is beyond me.

"I hope he enjoyed watching Clive's "world beaters" in action over the weekend! Super 12 clearly is only played by fairies and we clearly need to adopt the ten man game that England play so well or will never win ever again."
- Susan Corbett, UK

"Judging by the way voting is going in the Planet Rugby poll, it appears a large number of fair-weather England fans are throwing in the towel following the outing against the AB's, where England failed to deliver the 'something special' promised by captain Larry D.
 
"The person many of us are now waiting to hear from is Mr Stephen Jones. I personally am interested to know if he still considers the "Powder Puffs" are in "abject betrayal of the historical principles of rugby" and if he still feels that NZ and SA - constantly the object of his scathing derision - may not have "failed to understand the modern game", but have in fact been creating it out beyond his loud and myopic observations.

"I eagerly await the opportunity to read Mr Jones' 'expert opinion' on the recent performances of the northern hemispheres' foremost exponents of rugby in SA and NZ."
- Vaughan Billing, Canada 

"No doubt millions lamented England's defeat today as if to confirm some awful prediction. Since (and maybe even during) the World Cup we could see that something was wrong: it has just got worse. Put simply, the competition has improved in the areas that used to be dominated by England's front five, and England's backs have never been able to flourish when even slightly on the back foot.
 
"Yet if there was ever a time to get smashed it is now. Over three years to the next World Cup and there's a lot of water to run under the bridge. Timing is everything in World Cups and great teams can fade and poor teams blossom in 2-3 years. The challenge is medium-term and we should be grateful that England have the time, the organisation and the player population to spring back."
- The Hon Aubrey Wilson

"Perhaps the England team fell into the trap of believing the English press and commentators who believed this team would take apart the NZ forwards.

"Once the lumbering forward play loved by England did not work it was obvious they had no other game plan. Dallaglio is no captain and his tendency to give away vital penalties continued. England will need to look elsewhere for a true leader."
- J Ferrie, Hawick

"England had nothing really to get the All Blacks worried on this game, they were outgunned very early. Who said Super 12 didn't prepare for international test match?...
- Frederick Claro, Kumamoto, Japan

"England is finding out what it means to lose a great leader. Wilkinson is a great player but England losing Johnson was like NZ losing Fitzpatrick a few years ago ... irreplaceable."
- Stuart Gear

"Here endth the lesson!"
- Graeme, South Africa

'DON'T DESPAIR ENGLAND!'

"England looked tired and did not look like they wanted to win this game. Is this surprising given the season, European Cup etc etc?
 
"Next week will be different. We will be up for it big time after having our arses kicked. Look on the positive side, the second half was close in points, they didn't score any tries and few points despite us playing badly ... there is no doubt we CAN win next week, but they will need to WANT to do it badly enough."
- Steve Lowe, UK

"Hardly a disaster - it's not like we can expect to not lose a game until the 2007 RWC has finished, is it?

"It's been a long season (isn't it always), there have been a lot of changes and we are hardly full strength.

"We have seen the rise of the best team in the world; building up over that four years with amazing effort and commitment to achieve the ultimate goal. 

Who cares if we can't keep it up now - we got four years to build up to the next one and lets face it, hopefully by then some of the "old guard" will have been properly replaced with capable young blood.

"English rugby could go dangerously the way of English football - too much unrealistic expectation and a failure to see that the team (and others) has changed since the '66 world cup. 

"The fortunes of sport are dynamic and it's boring when they aren't. I personally can wait to see England find their form again, the novelty wears off from being the best because the only way is down."
- Philip Dillon-Thiselton, UK

"Woodward says after loosing 33-3 to the All Blacks: 'We looked tired, and we were not our usual selves'.

"The problem is that we are getting used to seeing England too often. They have played like they did during this years 6 Nations with no sign of recovery. This England needs some drastic revitalising in their game. Nothing wrong with the players except they cannot play at the level they are expected.
- Santiago Ysart, Spain

"Don't despair England, it is difficult for you in many ways. New Zealand have only lost three times in the last 100 years at Dunedin.

"When Australia were world champions I think we beat them back-to-back, including the World Cup Final, eight or nine times.

"The England players have come off the completion of a long premiership season including domestic and European competitions, and it still remains as the best Rugby Union league in the world.

"There is still a long way to go to blood a young team and bring them on for the challenge of further test matches and eventually our defence of the Webb Ellis trophy at the next World Cup in France.

"The Southern hemisphere Super Twelve competition is about speed and durability of a fast back line and not the confrontation of test match rugby consisting of forward power play to produce ball for a determined strong back division, which is the English way.

"Take heart England, everyone want's a piece of you now you're World Champions - I have total faith in the premise of when it really matters Sir Clive and his team will deliver the goods."
- Bryan Beard

"Well done New Zealand. But may I offer you a little sage advice that my grandpa passed down to me: any idiot can rise to the occasion whilst just messing around - the real test is keeping it up on your wedding night."
- Eric Mathers, Bristol, UK