Delicious
Digg
reddit
Facebook
StumbleUpon
Captain ROG to the rescue: Ireland's ship has hit choppy waters indeed
This week we will mostly be concerning ourselves with ambition, ego, falling from grace and cop-outs.
All those who doubted Gavin Henson's hunger to get back in that red jersey should do so no longer after Henson's departure from north London (never an easy fit, Saracens and Henson) for the sunnier climes of the south of France this week.
Henson, who was always likely to be stuck behind the established Brad Barritt and up-and-coming Owen Farrell in Sarries' pecking order, departed citing a lack of game-time which would hinder the four-month window he has remaining to somehow impress Warren Gatland enough for Gatland to pick him for the World Cup.
While his current target looks somewhat far-fetched, that move to Toulon could also be a piece of genius. Philippe Saint-Andre's style of rugby will play into Henson's hands. He is now surrounded by English-speakers and strong support runners in equal measure and will almost certainly be the team's first-choice goal-kicker (when Wilko isn't available).
Whether you approve of how he has done it or not - and there's a lot of arrogance about the way he has drifted in and out of the game and then simply swanned out of Saracens saying he's not being played enough - you have to now sit back and admit: Henson is serious. Fair play to him for not letting things like contracts stand in the way of his naked ambition... or is it delusion?
_________________________________________________________________
One who certainly was delusional this weekend was Ronan O'Gara. The Munster fly-half has cut a more and more frustrated figure over the past two seasons, as his place in the Ireland team has been gradually, almost painfully slowly, handed over to Jonathan Sexton.
This process has clearly not gone down well chez Ronan, who uttered the following after he dropped a late goal to seal Ireland's win in Italy: "...someone like Jonny comes in and he's really good but to continue the analogy, when the ship hits choppy waters you bring someone in. Jonny played well, but I got backed to come on and try to win the game."
OK Ronan, it was all you. Yours was the magic touch, yours was the direction, yours was the miracle moment and necessary touch of genius...
But lest you forget, when you actually came on, Ireland were already winning. In fact, while Jonny was on the park, Ireland led 10-6, but for the time after you came on, Ireland lost 5-3. Is Jonny really as inexperienced as you say or are you clutching at straws as your own ship hits those choppy waters you refer to?
_________________________________________________________________
Either way, one thing is clear: this is the end of Ireland's great generation. The Irish have lurched alarmingly since the Grand Slam of 2009, still too reliant on Brian O'Driscoll's leadership and with neither Munster nor Leinster providing as steady a stream of settled combinations as they used to.
Not many of the new lot coming through look to have the star quality of a Courtney Lawes, Joe Ansbro or Jonathan Davies and the problems at prop continue to be monkeys on Irish backs
It's a World Cup year, which almost presages an Irish fall from grace at some point. Indeed, such has been the catalogue of unexpected Irish failures since that epic near-miracle against Australia in 1991 that it's debatable who chokes more at World Cup, Ireland or New Zealand (you can add Wales to that list too).
Usually the team bounces back the following year, but the impression now is of a team very much in transition and with no firm hand at the steering wheel. It could be some time before the next Grand Slam.
_________________________________________________________________
Another position with no firm hand at the wheel is that of the Six Nations commentary team's Man of the Match selection panel. Not to do down Toby Flood's contribution, but his selection as Man of the Match in Friday's England-Wales clash beggared belief.
In a brutal clash played at high speed, there were countless candidates among the forwards, not least Tom Wood, Dylan Hartley, Nick Easter, Ben Foden, even Welshman Brad Davies stood out more than Flood.
The habit pundits are falling into of lazily choosing a fly-half as MOTM, ostensibly on account of a goal-kicking performance, is beginning to do television spectators of the game an injustice. Tight five forwards in particular get short shrift. Could we not get a view that's a little more subjective please?
Loose Pass compiled by Richard Anderson
Comments
kingstonian says...
I hope the Editor wasn't asking just pog_mahone to keep his posts rugby related when he was in fairness only responding to some of the vitriol being spewed here recently. Everyone enjoys the banter thats why we post but there is no place for xenophobia in our game so I would ask the mediator to keep this in mind otherwise we may as well be on a soccer forum.. God forbid!
Posted 11:04 11th February 2011
pog_mahone says...
@IainC,
Typical attitiude, the natives can't govern themselves. For your information the "bailout" we are getting is actually profiteering by our European friends, the ECB sold bonds at 2.5% and are charging us 5.5% for the privilege of borrowing their money so thanks for nothing. It's certainly not "helping me to support my team" - I have not looked for a cent from anyone, my personal tax bill has rocketed, I have got on with things (including spending money supporting my local club) because I have no choice about it. My club recently hosted an English schools team and I provided plates of sandwiches and cakes like every other parent - that's the true spirit of the game, not your mean spirited comments. I don't want any favours from you - keep you money, I can't afford the interest.
The editor says.... Guys, let's keep the comments rugby-related shall we?
Posted 18:07 10th February 2011
rugbyrugby says...
Can't resist correcting the posts on playing numbers.
I agree that England underperform based on playing numbers and money and this is what the new RFU CEO is aiming to fix with the structural 'shakeout'.
However the Irish posters are completely off the mark. If Ireland entered its national team into the Heineken cup it may well win the tournament. That does not mean that they should win the 6N. Why? Well I thought it is obvious. Just because you have beaten an english club side it doesn't meant that if you took the best 1 or two players from each of the english clubs to form an 'all star' (ie england) team that they wouldnt beat ireland.
Its a simple formula. The fewer club sides you have the less difference there will be between club performance and national performance. If you have many many clubs to draw from to make up the national side then you would expect a bigger improvement in the step up to national performances.
the player populations are not relevant to this particular point at all.
Posted 14:07 09th February 2011
rugbyrugby says...
Have they been handing out free guinness in Ireland?
Ireland nearly lost to Italy for god's sake. ergo I would keep quiet about any criticism until you put a performance on the board.
The references to Leinster are flabbergasting. It is not even quarterfinals in the Heineken cup yet and therefore performances to date are all but irrelevant.
More importantly, performance at a club/region level is also completely irrelevant to test match performance as they are completely different games. Are you suggesting Treviso and Aironi performance is the key indicator for Italy when their best players such as Parisse and Castro play in other teams?
Posted 13:49 09th February 2011
frazermackie says...
I can't believe how much praise ROG was getting after a shameful Irish performance. BOD's face said it all. The positive commentry should have been for the Italians after a convincing performance that shows they are a serious team.
'That is what he is known for' said the commentry team. I take it they have forgotton about the Lions tour and a certain non kick to touch!!
Posted 11:56 09th February 2011
norm says...
IainC
Your regressing to such a pathetic nah nah nah nah nah argument re the bailout kind of sums up your ability to have an intelligent argument regarding rugby, thus the initial evidence was right, when it comes to rugby you simply do not know what you are talking about!
Nothing in your locker mate, go home!
Posted 12:09 08th February 2011
breydon99 says...
Kybone - If you want to keep things in perspective dont forget that england has 50 million plus population and ireland has 4 million by your rationale england should have 50 professional teams in the premiership!!
Posted 03:21 08th February 2011
nareikc says...
@kybone are you serious, you cant be can you? Are you familar with this word...Population...google it and try and work it out. Geez man..
Posted 22:48 07th February 2011
bluestreak says...
@ kybone
It appears that not only do you know very little about rugby, you also have little or no understanding of basic maths. Here's a few stats taken from the IRB website to reinforce my point. Amount of senior male players playing the game in England: 166762. Amount of senior male players playing the game in Ireland: 25440. As you have already pointed out there are 4 professional teams in Ireland and 24 in England. This equates to app. 6950 players per pro team in England and 6360 players per pro team in Ireland. These stats would seem to suggest that clubs in both countries are operating on a pretty level playing field. So, kybone, before you post any more ridiculous ideas, please try and put a bit of thought in first.
Posted 22:04 07th February 2011
norm says...
Kybone
One other question, can you tell me who has the biggest playing pool in the world never mind Europe, and then tell who has the smallest of the home nations?
With a country of less than 5million, do you really think we could support 12 professional clubs?
Posted 21:25 07th February 2011
bluelion says...
@ kybone... we have a club system, and one grea decision by the IRFU was to leave them amateur. This established the provinces which nuture and in a little way protect the best of Irish talent. Contracts are central meaning no argument between club and country, unlike the annual stand-off between RFU and GP teams. Irish rugby is better organised.
@ johnthebean... Irish annoyance is at the innaccurate expression of poor development by PR. That's just not true and would be like saying France are a developing country after one bad game to Australia. The reporter has drawn the wrong conclusion which is adding to everyone's frustration as the media seem to ignore that Kidney is the cause.
The youth development system in Ireland is doing well at the moment. There's a long list of players coming through. Can we please have some fair commentary on how Ireland have regressed since the Slam 2 years ago?
Posted 20:51 07th February 2011
bluelion says...
@ kybone... we have a club system, and one grea decision by the IRFU was to leave them amateur. This established the provinces which nuture and in a little way protect the best of Irish talent. Contracts are central meaning no argument between club and country, unlike the annual stand-off between RFU and GP teams. Irish rugby is better organised.
@ johnthebean... Irish annoyance is at the innaccurate expression of poor development by PR. That's just not true and would be like saying France are a developing country after one bad game to Australia. The reporter has drawn the wrong conclusion which is adding to everyone's frustration as the media seem to ignore that Kidney is the cause.
The youth development system in Ireland is doing well at the moment. There's a long list of players coming through. Can we please have some fair commentary on how Ireland have regressed since the Slam 2 years ago?
Posted 20:51 07th February 2011
Claudio says...
You mention Henson as Toulonīs second choice for goal kicking if Wilko not available? and what about Felipe? did you forgot him?
Posted 20:27 07th February 2011
kiwieire says...
just adding my 2 cents worth but 6 out of the starting Irish team 15 (Mike Ross is 31)were 30yo ,and over on saturday and if you looked at the bench as well, 10 of 22 players are 30+. If you look at the whole Irish squad 15 of 35 are 30+ and there's a few others not too far from 30 either not that it matters if they are playing well.
But the author has a point in that the new generation while good, they are not world class (except for heaslip perhaps) like O'Driscoll was when he was the same age as they are now. Some of them do have the potential to be world class but it's a case of wait and see.
More worryingly there doesn't seem to be leaders among them coming up(again bar Heaslip... yes I am a fan of him) especially in the backs. Maybe there are but they are not being allowed to shine through at the moment with the old guard running the show. I hope so....
Posted 20:20 07th February 2011
charlobojangle says...
@kybone your argument holds no weight. You live in a country with over 10 times the population of Ireland. You should be able to fill 40 teams with ENGLISH players. The reality is you have one of the highest foreign playing populations in any league and your National team is also infiltrated by foreigners (particularly antipodeans) - now and historically (Hartley, Fluety, Hape, Varnikolo, Catt, Stevens, Shaw, Fourie, Abendanon, even Armitage!)
Posted 17:27 07th February 2011
DaveJ says...
@ johnthebean - I don't think any Irish supporter in any of the comments sections of any of the articles today has stated that Ireland were anything other than poor. We were well and truly awful. I don't accept the rational of " well if only a couple of passes had stuck" that I've read some places....well they didn't stick and we barely beat an Italian team that although are on the improve, are miles below where I would expect Ireland to be this close to a world cup.
Posted 17:24 07th February 2011
DaveJ says...
@ kybone - you are unknowingly advertising the Irish club model as being a far superior to the English one. Irish provinces are centrally governed by the IRFU who chose to develop the game from grass roots and keep the talent playing in the country between the 4 provinces. With the exception of 1 or 2 players, most of the Irish squad are playing in Ireland and playing very well with their clubs. Can be nothing but good for the game at both a club and national level. Surely it's better to have these national squad players playing together week in week out at club level rather than diluting their talent with the top 14 rejects in the premiership. The Premiership is a poor competition with 22 poor teams (Minus Leicester and NHampton) and this years European competitions have showed that quite clearly.... so I'm not really sure what you point is, we shouldn't be cocky because we admittedly have a better provincial/club setup??....I'd rather have 3 / 4 good teams and play in a international league than have 22 crap teams and play in a very poor national league.... Sorry mate, you've failed yourself in this argument.
Posted 17:20 07th February 2011
charlobojangle says...
So nobody is going to even mention Italy on here!!?? Sure Ireland were below par and threw about 2/3 try scoring opportunities away in the second half but one thing is for sure - the days of Italy being the whipping boys is done and dusted.
Their pack is actually awesome and they are starting to show some true star quality. The induction of them in the Magners league this year is already showing its benefits. Aroni have been improving and strong this season, recording a win against Leinster (best team in Europe IMO) in the Magners and Biarritz in the H-Cup (Quarter finalists!). This is reflective on the team along with their bigger stars playing in England and France.
The slight against Ireland is in fairness a touch over the top. Agreed - the "Golden generation" (Eddie O'Sullivan's starting XV) is coming to a close but a new kind of Generation, maybe just as gifted and talented as the last (perhaps bar BOD) is coming through the ranks just in tie for the World Cup this year. The young guns of Leinster and Ulster (Munster are shagged) specifically are leading the charge and as an Irish fan I am excited to see this team grow and get better with time.
Something not mentioned in this article is that Ireland had a heap of injuries and to some talismanic players like Kearney, Bowe & Heaslip. Granted the same young guns that I give praise to stepped in and didn't perhaps play to potential but I feel we'll get there and be in awesome shape for the WC later this year.
Prediction - Italy to beat Wales at home this year, maybe get a cheeky win in Scotland and push England and France all the way like they did Ireland.
Posted 17:06 07th February 2011
norm says...
Kybone
Its not cockiness, its a rebuttal of some points put up for discussion by the author of the above piece.
Also I think you will find the tone of most posts was regarding the standard of those coming through the Irish system, which is a direct response to the insinuation that we had nothing in our locker so to speak.
Yes, a few wingnuts post here from both sides of the argument, but in general I disagree with the cocky assertion, the article was designed to illicit a debate. I do not accept cocky as a description of the responses to Mr Andersons assertions of a poor back up of talent. The majority I see offer evidence to disagree with the article.
Also I think you will find that the majority of irish posts on this and other pages widely state that we were diabolical on Saturday, hardly a statement of arrogance.
You want cockiness, listen to the Leinster posts after they absolutely trounce Leicester in a couple of months, in the meantime its more likely to be wailing and gnashing of teeth as we progress through the 6N!
Posted 16:50 07th February 2011
IainC says...
norm...I mentioned older, not old players. The point I was making is that the majority of the Irish players are playing like they are past their peak...i.e. not very well!
Wow - these Irish fans ARE touchy And to think, if it wasn't for some of the other competing nations bailing out their econonomy, the Irish probably wouldn't have had the money to get to the away games!
Posted 16:42 07th February 2011